8 responses so far ↓

• 1 Rich // Apr 13, 2005 at 6:54 PM

  The Conservatives which saved the country from the appalling state Labour had got it into to - and indeed who laid the neo-liberal foundations for New Labours continuing economic sucesses.

  As for democracy - who needs it, as Hegel pointed out - one person one vote is an inherently flawed system due to voter apathy and lack of education regarding issues. Churchill, of course, phrased this well, saying that the only thing worse than democracy were the other options. As for the war - I’d rather have the sovereign Parliament of the nation voting for the war than a bunch of mass media fueled plebs, while not to the scale of the United States - Britain still elects its MP’s to represent the population in parliament, not to default to a referendum over every issue that might be considered important.

  I see no race card being played - If you are taking the laughable social-liberal line that any comments on immigration and asylum is “RACIST OMFG~@!~@” then heh, that is what is increasingly wrong with the PC obsessed masses who scream injustice when legitimate issues are raised. Both are problems afflicting the nation, and I would caution people on confusing the ravings of the right wing media with the manifesto of the cons party.

  Labour are also slashing CC numbers, as part of the continuing process of reform begun by the Next Steps white paper promoting agencification and the new public management. Since when has more been better? This is a view that firmly belongs in the past, if private business has shown anything its that efficiency is not dependent on the amount of staff employed - but on operating procedure and methods.

  As for your election predictions - this is the standard lip-service paid by many who want to sound as if they know something for months. Now this is no reflection on yourself, I make no judgements or speculatory comments on how much you have followed the election - but I believe the results may be slightly more surprising than you anticipate.

  The last Cons government transformed this country into a competative international player, one of the worlds leading economies. I am continually amused by these baseless railings against the former government which seem to be seen as trendy, I’ll take substance over style any day.

  Huk.

• 2 Jackdaw // Apr 13, 2005 at 9:13 PM

  We’ve never seen eye to eye on politics, you cute right wing nutball. It’s doubtful we ever will. Perversely it’s one of the reasons I like you.

  I guess we come from very different backgrounds and have formed different views on existence.

  para1- The grounding was laid by Major, he repaired the shit left by Maggie Thatcher’s Conservatism. It was the one thing Major did right, Labour then built on that and did some good with it, writing off debt.

  para2- We need democracy, dismissing that isn’t what I would view as a way forward. People are flawed, ugly and stupid. That can’t be helped; but they should still have their say. In simple terms, Parliament didn’t take us to war, Washington did.

  para3- What problem afflicting the nation? We have amazingly low asylum numbers here, Labour have turned asylum around totally, it’s one of the few decent things they’ve managed. Thatcher and Major culled the CC working on asylum which created the problem to begin with.

  para4- Labour are making less cuts than the Conservatives. The CC is already stretched in a lot of places, since when is not enough better? Private business has drawbacks as well, to many rights, too much political power, not enough checks and balances. It’s not perfect.

  para5- No, I don’t think the results will be more surprising. I’ll stick to my: standard lip-service paid by many who want to sound as if they know something for months. Thanks.

  para6- Attacking Labour is trendy, attacking the Conservatives is old. They were last in power 8 years ago. You have only to read the munchkins on the IRC channel we inhabit - Blair bashing is in, they don’t recall the Tories.

  Each government does some good and some bad and no party will fit your values perfectly. Each voter should read the manifestos of the major parties, and chose the party closest to there most important values. The odds of Joe Public doing that are not high. I’ve done it though, and I’m not voting for either the Conservatives or Labour.

• 3 Rich // Apr 15, 2005 at 1:48 AM

  Point out to me what was so wrong with Thatchers Conservatism me old triple flanged gibbon. Essentially Britain’s relative economic decline was terminal, the country was - to be it simply - shit. Industry refused to adapt to the realities that the world beyond government protection was more modern, and more efficient than it. And so Thatcher strolled in and said “sod off you wasters” - and opened competition to Europe. This forced industry to actually compete, rather than have their managers sit around churning out the same old tat far slower and more expensively.

  So the crap industry died. Meanwhile the unions, raving nutcases that they were, were wayyyyyyyyy too powerful. The amount of working days lost was OBSCENE, with militant labour thinking they ran the show - as sucessive governments pandered to them. Of course Heath attempted to do what Thatcher did, but he was a wimp - In beating the miners Thatcher returned the country to the control of its elected representatives, a masterstroke. Major continued the thatcherist policies, even (some would argue) being more radical in their implimentation. This is what Blair and Brown inherited, the lucky apes.

  Now it is clear that Thatcher went completely insane in her closing months, and was right to be booted - but in the years before she did much essential good.

  I say we don’t need democracy, personally I think Singapore has the right idea. Fuchyama hailed (amusingly) the fall of communism as the end of history, due to the perceieved victory of western liberal democracy. This of course is rubbish, socialism has failed - so the future is the authoritarian liberalism of the east asian economies. Where law and order are prioritised without the erosion of civil liberties. If a chav beats up an old woman, he should be flogged in the street then confined - not sent to a cosy community centre to be told he’s a baad baad boy. But this is not acceptable in our current system, hence it continues its decline.

  The asylum problems are indicative of a wider western problem, not created by civil service reforms on the part of the British government. Clearly Labour haven’t done all that much as it remains an issue of hot debate both in the media (albeit most of which is deranged ranting) but also in Parliament - beyond party election agendas. However I don’t know the details of the policies so cannot comment in depth.

  Brown announced 55000 CC staff cut months ago, both parties merge on this issue (as they do on so many others, confined as they are by New Labours march towards the centre right). Numbers announced now aren’t overly important, the end result will be the same. Private business does have drawbacks, but an efficient free market system based on the consumer is much more preferable than a monolithic bureaucracy influencing policy instead of implimenting it. If the job can be done by fewer people then it should be - ultimately the state isn’t a charity - it remains to be seen how said cuts will affect outcomes.

  Ultimately polls mean little, 1992 predicted a Labour landslide yet Major remained in power - albeit with a tiny majority, but the polls were way off the mark. The level of disillusionment with Blair and the reduction of the influence those who rave about “OH THATCHER WAS Soo BAD =(” due to a new generation of voters, may surprise.

  Attack Labour is trendy because they warrant attacking, crazed reckless fools they are holding no regard for parliamentary government or tradition. Not to mention Blair misled Parliament - now you can argue all you like about the rights and wrongs of Iraq, but that just took the biscuit. “I stand by the totality of my actions” - you can sod off you scum (Blair that is). The Conservative bashing comes from the old lefty school which moans about not being able to walk out of work for a week because Mrs Milton in the tea rooms was fired for baking cakes with aspestos. Which is passed to their illiterate kids who don’t have a clue what they are raving about - “vote labour!!!!111112″ “why?” “errr…. cause otherwise the TORIES will get back in LOL”. As for the munchkins on IRC, most of them aren’t old enough to vote or are crazy foreigners, not really a good sample population.

  The day the Lib Dems get into government is the day I ask my good friend Geoge Dubya to lay waste to this sad little grouping of islands with his mighty ARSENAL!

  Good day.

• 4 Rich // Apr 15, 2005 at 1:51 AM

  Seems to be almost 3am - hence so many ERRORS in SPAG

• 5 Jackdaw // Apr 15, 2005 at 6:02 AM

  Now I’m just afraid of Dubya’s ARSENAL. I wander off to work with that slightly disgusting thought in my mind …

• 6 Rich // Apr 15, 2005 at 10:26 AM

  giggle

• 7 Jackdaw // Apr 15, 2005 at 8:45 PM

  And the rest of this moves onto IRC or IM …

• 8 meh // May 7, 2005 at 2:11 AM

  Edit by JD: Thank you anonymous from the Netherlands, not the UK, for this factless and innacurate post - though I’ll leave it up just to point at your insanity.

  Rich is right. Thatcher saved this country. Period. Its not up for debate, its fact, check any independant media. Anyone who denies this needs their head looked at. She made this country worth living in. I graduate soon, and if she never got in i would be preparing to emigrate right about now. After getting my degree here on the cheap, of course :)

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